Erections during massage
I wrote a page on my website a long time ago (2001 or so) on erections that occur in men when getting a massage. It always seems to cause quite a reaction particularly in men who routinely site all of the physiological reasons that erections occur.
Being a heterosexual woman of course, I only know about erections second hand, but do know that anything that is occurring physiologically has it’s root in our thoughts - most of what are unconscious thoughts. The way to become aware of your thoughts is to pay attention to what your body and feelings are telling you. What are men who get erections on the massage table unconsciously thinking? That is the real issue where healing can begin.
If the issue were a total physiological one- then why don’t all men get one at the time of a massage? Why don’t men who are stressed out or have something else on their mind that is bothering them automatically get one? Why do men who are with a loving partner that they trust have issues with erections when they are under stress? If the issue was just physiological it would be able to be controlled by changing the physiology. Erectile dysfunction could be remedied by massage then instead of the many drugs that are out there today. (Yes and maybe it can help in reducing the stress that is a part of ED.)
If erections were just a result of being touched then do heterosexual men get erections when they are massaged by males?
So what does it mean when a man gets an erection while getting a massage from a woman who is a total stranger in most cases? What must a man be unconsciously believing about himself or the act of getting a massage or even touched by anyone?
So often men seem to have a fear of getting a massage because of the fear of getting an erection during the massage. Doesn’t that actually set men up for getting an erection during massage - since what we think will become a reality. If men are concerned about getting an erection during a massage do they actually get one or are they less likely to get one because they are aware of their fears about it?
My writings in the article noted above are influence by a local psychologist -Anne Stirling Hastings who wrote a book called “Body and Soul: Sexuality on the Brink of Change”. In it she talks about just how much our society is influenced by the media and shame. Here are a few quotes to explain more about where I am coming from on this:
“The more ashamed and controlled a person or a culture, the more reactive he or she becomes to sexual stimuli to make sure this energy is not eliminated. The current cultural definition of sexual freedom is to be able to react to any kind and amount of stimuli we choose. Real freedom will come when we don’t have to react to stimuli, when we are able to allow our sexuality to emerge when it is right to do so. As sexuality is repressed, reactivity increases, and as reactivity becomes more intense, the cultural desire to control it increases.”
“Cross wiring, as I have defined it (the author of the book is saying this) reflects the incorrect associations between sexuality and anything else that is not inherently sexual”….she goes on to list categories of sexually cross-wired behaviors one of which is this category -Feelings that produce arousal and lists wondering if the person will arouse you or not during a massage.
Getting an erection during massage is not normal (as in it doesn’t happen every time) but it does happen. I have given massage for 20 years full time (probably around 20,000 massages) and I have only had one male get a full on erection. I know there are probably more who have had feeling stimulated or had the massage feel sensual. Touch is sensual as in appealing to the senses. Professional Massage isn’t sexual.
It is OK if it happens. A skilled massage therapist will be able to address the issue comfortably. If the line is crossed where the man is wanting something to relieve the erection that is a different story and it is called prostitution. It does not have any place on a massage table or massage practice. Males getting erections on the massage table is really a great indicator of where healing needs to occur for men and the massage therapist doing the massage too.
Why the massage therapist? Could there be some unconscious intention being played out? Most likely there is - but what is left to each individual massage therapist to discover.
So I hope this can be the beginning of a very important discussion for the massage profession.
February 10th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Let me first start by saying that this response is not condoning sexual massage in any way, shape or form. This is merely a response to look deeper into the issue of erection during massage and create further discussion. Let me also state that while this article specifically talks about erections during massage, sexual arousal during a session can occur for both male and female recipients. However, with female recipients we don’t get the obvious outward sign of arousal, unless nipple erection occurs.
Let’s start with the topic of physiology.
The nervous system includes a complicated network of nerves that run to and from the brain and spinal cord. Many of these nerves share the same pathways. In the topic at hand, we are specifically looking at lumbar and sacral plexuses and stimulation of the nerves through massage. The abdomen, lower limbs, and gluteal muscles share the same nerve pathway and the nerve plexuses as the genitals. When massaging the abs, lower limbs, or glutes, nerve stimulation is diffuse throughout the area and can have an affect on the nerve signals from the genitals.
A main goal of massage therapy is to ‘shut off’ or at least ‘turn down’ a client’s sympathetic nervous system (the ‘fight or flight’ system) and get a client more into his/her parasympathetic nervous system (the ‘rest and digest’ system). The parasympathetic division of the autonomic nervous system controls both the relaxation response and the body’s responses that occur during sexual arousal, specifically vasocongestion. So when one relaxes out of a sympathetic state there is a predisposition to sexual arousal.
Now that we have looked a tiny bit at the physiology, let’s look at other factors that play into this topic. Those factors are other stimulus and the limbic system.
Our limbic system controls emotions, behavior, memory, and sexual response. In humans, sexual response starts with any stimulus that is erotic to an individual and involves the senses or cognitive process such as: a familiar place or setting, seeing an attractive person, hearing certain music, a memory, a touch, a fantasy, and much more. The key here is that the stimulus is erotic to an individual and varies greatly from person to person.
In a massage session this stimulus may be the feel of the sheets, the soft lighting, candles burning, certain smells, being nude, even simply lying down. These can all be stimulus that the mind connects with sexual experience and may signal a sexual response. Add these stimulus to the physiological responses above and the chances for a sexual arousal increase.
So, let me answer a few of the questions posed in the article. The first one being, “If erections were just a result of being touched then do heterosexual men get erections when they are massaged by males?”
First off, we now know that it is more complicated than simply “a result of being touched”. Secondly, the answer is yes. I have had heterosexually identified men become aroused during a session. I have even had heterosexually identified men become aroused during CranioSacral Therapy Sessions which are performed fully clothed. As the body relaxes deeper into parasympathetic, the odds of arousal increase. While working on the sacral, lumbar, and pelvic areas of the craniosacral system, I am working specifically in the area of the lumbar sacral plexuses talked about above. I have also spoken with other male massage therapists from around the country who have had heterosexual men become aroused during a session.
“Why don’t men who are stressed out or have something else on their mind that is bothering them automatically get one? Why do men who are with a loving partner that they trust have issues with erections when they are under stress?”
As discussed above, the sexual response is under the control of the parasympathetic nervous system. As is the case with many, many people in society, sympathetic nervous system activation is high. Because of the many stressors people face on a daily basis and the high levels of anxiety to just get by, people live in their sympathetic nervous system. It can be very difficult for someone to access his/her parasympathetic nervous system. Look at the rise in prescriptions for anti-anxiety meds and sleeping pills. We live in a go-go-go, ‘don’t stop’ society which keeps people in ‘fight or flight’ and over time the body adapts to this and it becomes the norm. Under these conditions it can be difficult for men to “automatically get one” even with a loving, trusting partner.
“If the issue was just physiological it would be able to be controlled by changing the physiology. Erectile dysfunction could be remedied by massage then instead of the many drugs that are out there today.”
I have to say that I am very surprised by this statement from a fellow bodyworker. Of course ED is a physiological issue. What else would it be? Even from the approach of it being a structural issue, structure and function are inter-related thereby making it physiological issue. If you look at the major causes of ED they are all physiological diseases of the body or physiological side effects of prescription drugs. So yes, ED could be remedied by massage instead of drugs if massage were a cure for diabetes, kidney disease, nerve damage, multiple sclerosis, arthrosclerosis, etc, etc.
I also want to stop here and point out a ‘technique’ that is often taught in massage schools and discussed between bodyworkers regarding erections during massage. It is fairly common knowledge that if a client gets an erection while massing the areas discussed above (abs, gluts, lower limbs) the therapist can move to a different area of the body. If the client does not indicate any other signs of sexual interest the phase will pass in a minute or two. To me, this is a clear example that arousal can be a purely physiological response.
Often times it is someone new to massage who becomes aroused during a massage session. I believe this to be because up to this point he/she has mainly experienced touch during sexual acts. If the therapist has very clear, therapeutic boundaries and knows how to properly address the issue of arousal in an ethical, educated way, in time the new client will become used to massage and his/her body will begin to separate touch into sexual and non-sexual, therapeutic types. Arousal will become less likely to occur as he/she becomes accustomed to therapeutic massage.
Arousal may or may not indicate that the client is looking for something sexual. As I have pointed out, there are ways the body can initiate an arousal response automatically. What bugs me the most and prompted such a lengthy reply to the article is that just because male arousal can cause a visibly noticeable response, it is very often assumed that he must be thinking about or want something sexual. And while I understand that in some instances this is true (and have personally stopped a session and asked the client to leave); I believe the vast majority men who become aroused during a session are not looking for anything sexual to happen. Let me illustrate this with a story that a colleague’s brother shared with us during a conversation about why he won’t get a massage.
He had decided to finally try out massage, even though he was nervous about getting an erection. He booked an appointment and went in for his session. He was a bit nervous, but as the therapist worked on his back he began to forget about his nerves, begins to enjoy his first massage and starts fading into that wonderful meditative-like state brought on by the parasympathetic. He even began to drool.
Halfway through the therapist asked him to turn over. He jumped slightly when the therapist as he realized he was really ‘out of it’ for a while.
As he started to turn over, he also realized that he had an erection. The nervousness and the embarrassment hit him like a ton of bricks. He turned over, and tried to adjust himself to hide the fact he had an erection. The therapist noticed that he was erect, had ‘touched’ himself, and appeared a bit nervous (side note: yes we do notice all that stuff during sessions). The therapist says ‘This is not that kind of massage. I’m going to leave the room so you can get dressed.’
Yes, I am very aware the therapist should have handled this differently. But I have heard stories like this more than once. It happens because it is automatically assumed that the man wants something sexual. Now, this gentleman is not only embarrassed and feeling ashamed, but may never get a massage again. (another side note: he did pay the full fee)
The article quoted Anne Stirling Hastings, “Cross wiring, as I have defined it (the author of the book is saying this) reflects the incorrect associations between sexuality and anything else that is not inherently sexual”. I feel this is also applicable to the therapist who immediately associates an erection with the desire for sexual activity.
Those of us in this profession have a responsibility to do our part to accurately and properly educate society about the benefits of massage therapy. That includes educating that there is a physiological potential for sexual arousal and that as long as it is not acted upon by either party involved and the session remains therapeutic, there is nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about. If arousal happens, it should be discussed by the therapist and client either at that moment or after the session. Men who wish to have a relaxing, therapeutic experience should not be so afraid and nervous about it that they never get to experience how great it is to receive a professional massage.
February 10th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Thanks for your detailed and well thought out response.
I think most are missing my point which is that this is really a chance for both parties -the male client who doesn’t get a massage for fear of getting an erection and the massage therapist who are to deal with the issues - to become more self aware and heal.
I still think there is much more to stimulation than just saying it is purely a physiological one and a result of the parasympathetic system.
Why don’t all men get erections then on the massage table when they are relaxed? There is so much conditioning and shame that goes into that act and societies pressures to be sexual for guys that they become hard-wired. I am doing some reading on the brain and emotions and thinking and there is so much rewiring that can take place. It is how we change. It is a great opportunity to re-wire this expectation and fear of getting an erection on the massage table as well as females (and males) and how they are dealt with.
I didn’t really even get into how to deal with them.
February 10th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Julie,
I definitely did miss your point, but was glad to offer my input on the topic. I do think it is an important issue currently facing our profession.
You asked, “Why don’t all men get erections then on the massage table when they are relaxed?”
I think there are a few reasons which were touched upon in my response. And I don’t think it is one of these as much as a combination of these things.
First, I think a lot of people can’t fully relax - even during a massage. So he never really gets into a true parasympathetic state where there is the possibility for arousal.
Second, if he has received massages before then his body understands and is accustomed to what it feels like to become relaxed and receive massage without a sexual response.
The third reason ties in a bit with the second. As I stated in my previous post, I believe that most guys only know touch as being a sexual event. (I won’t go into society’s view of touch or male gender stereotypes here. I’ll save that for a later discussion.) Notice that I said ‘most guys’.
I believe a very large percentage of men who do receive massage are very comfortable with more ‘casual’ touch. They grew up in homes with families who touched and hugged, and they had relationships where touch was more than just sexual. So they come into their first massage session not needing to ‘learn’ that not all touch is sexual. (Keep in mind I am not talking about guys who are intentionally looking for a sexual massage.)
Lastly there may be physiological issues present which prevent a guy from getting an erection. So even working in some of the potential ‘arousal areas’ would not send arousal signals to the CNS.
Also I want to clarify my point and state that I believe it is a combination of all that I discussed that leads to arousal. It is a complex chemical and neural mixture of physiology, autonomic nervous system, limbic system, external sexual stimulus, and touch history that can lead to arousal.
I agree with you that there is the potential to rewire. As a therapist specializing in Upledger’s CranioSacral Therapy, I have training in SomatoEmotional Release. I am fortunate to witness people rewire and make new pathways all the time during sessions. I know without a doubt it can be done.
But I feel the first step we must take “…to rewire this expectation and fear of getting an erection on the massage table …” needs to be massage therapists not viewing every erection as a sexual advance.
February 16th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
What a silly discussion. Two massage therapist discussing erections during massage therapy. Julie you are a woman and you will never understand how the male penis works no matter how hard you try. I garranttee there have been many of your clients who have had erections during your sessions and you never noticed it. It isn’t that simple for men. Our sexual organs or all totally exposed. An erection will come and go. I have been receiving massage therapy for over 17 years straight and I have had erections on a number of occasions. I also have erections when I wake up in the morning and it has nothing to do with sex. Soft music, a gentle touch, a slow tender rubbing of the skin, what can you expect. I had a therapist who I had to stop while lying on my stomach because I was about to ejaculate. She figured out why I stopped her and we talked about it. Mind you this lady had been my therapist for over 4 years at the time. She told me that sometimes that happens and the client doesn’t tell you but she can tell after they left. Its the relaxation and is part of the treatment. I would suggest another profession for you Julie. A male erection is a very common occurance in all males lives. Whether it is in the morning, during the night, or during a massage it is a very natural thing. You don’t have to be thinking about it to get one. I might add that many males are going to produce sperm during a massage session. Do you think that is wrong? No man can control these things no matter how hard he tries because it is part of the male persona. Julie, you are a massage therapist not a sex therapist. An erection in itself is a very healthy thing in a male. Buy the book, Out in the Open The Complete Male Pelvis by R. Louis Schultz. Mr. Schultz is a Rolfer. It is the perfect book for you and for any bodyworker who wants to understand the male reproductive system.
February 16th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Sorry you think this is silly but it is one of the most important discussions we can have as massage professionals.
Men seem to keep mis-interpreting my writings about this. I know men get them. It is Ok to get them. It is healthy.
I am just saying that there can be some great healing done around touch for men and the women regarding this issue.
Sorry I am not changing professions after 20 years in this one…
I post this only because I don’t want men sending me emails that are one sided anymore and wish to create a discussion on this topic. And since I am a female, I want to get men’s input on this topic.
I wish that you could explain then why all men don’t get them. I wish you could also explain why men who are under stress and have something else on their mind can’t get them no matter how relaxing the setting or touch. It is a very delicate combination of things that have to happen and it starts with our thoughts.
Thanks for your input.
Julie
February 17th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
First let me say that I did NOT read all of your article about erections and massage. It was obvious to me from the opening paragraphs that “somebody” has a basic lack of understanding of males.
Heterosexual men are NATURALLY “programmed” to react physically in that manner. Logically, homosexual men would tend to be “programmed” to get random erections from male massage therapists.
In short, get over it. If it bothers the female massage therapist, then she should stop booking male heterosexual clients.
In my opinion, anyone who has a problem with this NATURAL “cause and effect” has psycho-sexual problems and should seek professional help.
February 17th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
You should have kept reading… I didn’t say anything about erections not be a natural part of a males physiology nor do I have a problem with them. The thing is that many women and even men do.
I have yet to have a male explain then why don’t all men just automatically get one and why some men can’t get one no matter how relaxed they are (and don’t have any physiological issues going on).
It happens when both sexes are giving the massage so it is a very important issue to discuss for massage professionals.
Julie
February 18th, 2008 at 7:58 am
Hi Julie. I finally did read everything, AFTER I posted my first comment. I just couldn’t contain myself. I will now concentrate on answering your unanswered questions as best I can.
Your first question: “Why don’t all men just automatically get one”? I would say that the answer to that question could be as varied as the answer to “Why didn’t my team win the game?” You know the answers! Some men have unknown physical problems. Some men are shy. Some men are too tired. Some men are too stressed. Some men are too relaxed. The massage may simply not have stimulated or created such a physical reaction because of what or how the therapist did what they did.
That’s all I have for you on why all men DON’T get erections during massage.
Your next question is: “why some men can’t get one no matter how relaxed they are (and don’t have any physiological issues going on)?”
Who knows! This is clearly a question for some kind of doctor. One thing I would ask you is how can you ever be sure how relaxed someone’s MIND is? And, how could YOU ever be sure of a client’s precise physical situation? The answer to both questions is the same. YOU CAN NEVER REALLY KNOW.
What bothered me most about your article is that if the situation were reversed, and a male massage therapist was pressing to know EVERYTHING about why some of his women clients get wet vaginas and nipple erections while others don’t, EVERYBODY would likely want to know WHY does he want or need to know THAT? Some might even suggest that in reality, he is searching for ways to MAKE those physical reactions occur. Ethical? Unethical? You tell me.
In conclusion, my advice to you is simple. Just forget about it. If we men get an erection during massage, great. If we don’t, great. So what.
February 18th, 2008 at 9:53 am
The thing is that it would be nice to just not talk about this. We can talk about womens reactions to getting a massage by a male too.
I am getting so many emails from women about these writing saying “right on” which clearly shows that they are challenged by dealing with erections. Many women will just end a session because of the fear of it escalating to rape or the guy wanting a happy ending. If women (and men) understood more about what was going on, they could just address it appropriately and continue the session.
The other interesting thing is that this post gets the men posting their replies and the women remain quite or send me a private email showing that there is much healing on both parties that can happen around this very sensitive issue.
Julie
February 20th, 2008 at 6:55 am
A few thoughts about the comments posted …
First, I agree that this is not a silly discussion. Henry, your therapist handled the situation very well and was comfortable having a conversation about it most likely because she had discussed this topic previously with peers. It is conversations like this that help massage therapists just entering the field become comfortable talking about erections instead of stopping the session and running from the room.
Second, Julie says, “The thing is that it would be nice to just not talk about this.” I agree. So why do we have to keep talking about this? I feel it’s because, unfortunately, many people still think of massage therapists as people offering sexual services. So for the massage professional it is important to understand why men get erections (both sexual and non-sexual), how to assess the situation when it happens, and how to comfortably have a discussion with the client and end the session if necessary. For the general public, it’s good for us to talk about this so that they understand that we (massage therapists) know that erections may happen, but will not tolerate it when the client wants the session to turn sexual.
It is also important to talk about this so that when a person decides to try massage therapy and finds himself/herself getting aroused, he/she doesn’t freak out thinking that something’s wrong, and then never try massage again. It’s good for people to know that while it doesn’t happen all the time, the possibility of arousal is there because of how our CNS is wired.
Lastly, Julie mentions, “The other interesting thing is that this post gets the men posting their replies and the women remain quite or send me a private email showing that there is much healing on both parties that can happen around this very sensitive issue.”
I feel this topic can be a ‘catch-22′ for woman in this field. If she states that she is not comfortable with erections then she obviously doesn’t ‘understand’ men and has issues with men and/or sexuality. If she states that she is comfortable with a man getting an erection, then she obviously likes seeing it and may even offer sexual services if pushed a little bit.
I think it is important that we continue to have this conversation. It is only through open, honest discussion that we will eventually defuse this topic.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:50 pm
My responses to your latest comments:
“…I am getting so many emails from women about these writing saying “right on” which clearly shows that they are challenged by dealing with erections…”…………TO THIS I SAY: IF NATURAL MALE PHYSICAL REACTIONS BOTHER YOU, THEN STOP BOOKING MALES FOR MASSAGE THERAPY!!!!
“…Many women will just end a session because of the fear of it escalating to rape or the guy wanting a happy ending…”………TO THIS I SAY: I AM THANKFUL THAT I HAVEN’T RUN INTO ONE OF THESE (I pity their sexual partners) WOMEN. BY-THE-WAY, BASICALLY A-L-L HETEROSEXUAL MEN WOULD BE PLEASANTLY SURPRISED AND PLEASED (AT LEAST AT THE TIME) TO HAVE A ‘HAPPY ENDING’, BUT N-O-B-O-D-Y EXPECTS THAT!
“…If women (and men) understood more about what was going on, they could just address it appropriately and continue the session…”………TO THIS I SAY: ONE TIME I WENT TO A FEMALE MASSAGE THERAPIST WHO MADE IT A POINT TO CALL ATTENTION TO MY “WOODY” IN A WAY THAT MADE ME FEEL GUILTY AND WAS ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY. IT PISSED ME OFF AND I NEVER WENT BACK TO THAT ‘MENTAL CASE’. THE KEY IS TO ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, A-L-W-A-Y-S IGNORE IT!!!!!! OF COURSE PAY ATTENTION TO ANYTHING ELSE, BUT N-O-T A SIMPLE ERECTION.
In my next comment (this one is long enough) I will tell you of some experiences that I’ve had in which the therapist did do some specific things that DID create this physical response in me. I will never know if these things were done by design or if it was their standard procedure. Whichever the case, these things made ‘it’ happen for me, and were out of the norm enough for me to remember them years later.
February 23rd, 2008 at 3:41 pm
I actually think the whole reason why men get them on the massage table is related to the fact that they are made to feel guilty about getting one as a kid. You chose to feel guilty about it and chose to be angry about it.
But the whole problem is that men who do want to do something about the ‘woody’ as you prefer to call it - like the recent guy who contacted me saying he wasn’t being slimy but thought that total release should be part of a massage session and he would be happy to do it himself. He said he wanted a sensual massage to help deal with some stress he was going through which is a very legitamate request except for men it always seems to include erections. They don’t seem to know the difference between sensual and sexual. Having nurturing touch isn’t enough.
So how does a woman tell the difference in her male client about whether it is ok to ignore it or if the next thing they know they are wanting more- there isn’t any way so women are forced to create boundaries and call attention to things to be straight forward about the situation.
As it says in the original post
“The more ashamed and controlled a person or a culture, the more reactive he or she becomes to sexual stimuli to make sure this energy is not eliminated. The current cultural definition of sexual freedom is to be able to react to any kind and amount of stimuli we choose. Real freedom will come when we don’t have to react to stimuli, when we are able to allow our sexuality to emerge when it is right to do so. As sexuality is repressed, reactivity increases, and as reactivity becomes more intense, the cultural desire to control it increases.”
The shaming starts in early childhood and continues - it is all around us today in the commercials, movies everywhere you look.
February 24th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Phil, I am curious if you are a professionally trained massage therapist.
It is very different on the ‘other side of the table’. Even as a male therapist, if a male gets an erection during a session, I go ‘on alert’. I need to become aware of other signs that may indicate he wants more than just a massage; and if necessary, need to be prepared to properly end a session without confrontation.
For me, as I think is the case with many therapists is that it is not the erection itself that bothers us. It’s the possibility that we are going to be put in an uncomfortable position. We are professional massage therapists, not sexual service providers.
You commented, “BY-THE-WAY, BASICALLY A-L-L HETEROSEXUAL MEN WOULD BE PLEASANTLY SURPRISED AND PLEASED (AT LEAST AT THE TIME) TO HAVE A ‘HAPPY ENDING’, BUT N-O-B-O-D-Y EXPECTS THAT!”
The truth is that there are guys who expect it - that’s why those of us in this profession need to continue having this conversation. Many people still believe that a masseuse provides sexual massage.
Lastly, it is not a good idea for a massage therapist to “ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, A-L-W-A-Y-S IGNORE IT!!!!!!”
It is a judgment call for the therapist. I will agree that from what you have told us, the therapist who made that comment was out of line.
However, if I am working with a client and I notice that he is getting really uncomfortable and maybe embarrassed because of getting an erection, I will probably say something. It will be educational, non-sexual, and non-insulting. I may not talk directly about it during the session, but will talk about it after the session has ended. Why do I talk about it?
I want the client to know (as long as it is non-sexual) that it happens and I want him to not feel embarrassed or uncomfortable about coming back for another session. I also let him know that it may not happen at every session. Taking time to discuss it helps to defuse the feelings that come up around this topic so that when he comes back for his next massage he can fully relax without the ‘fear’ of getting an erection. If it happens, it happens.
March 24th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
To the question of why doesn’t every guy get one? I don’t get ‘one’ because I spend a few moments hear and there during the massage on “erection prevention” through mental control. Sometimes erection is provoked by touch to a specific area resembling sexual sensation and other times it is provoked by relaxation (parasympathetic-I’m glad to have a clinical term for this). I get irritated with the latter when I feel I must pull myself out of the parasympathetic stage to dampen the oncoming erection. I would much prefer continuing down the road of relaxation to see what new level of discovery (non-sexual) lies ahead. I feel the only way for me to do this comfortably is to have a conversation with my therapist about the situation. I haven’t to this point because I don’t want it to come across as my asking permission to get an erection on the table….which is essentially the question. Julie, in an attempt to further understanding between the male client and female massage therapist, how could this question be presented to you so that you would feel comfortable with your client getting an erection during massage?
Being a guy, I really would prefer a hand written note from another massage therapist detailing my request in hopes of softening the reality of the question…and to avoid the uncomfortable, possibly relationship ending conversation. Aside from a note, any thoughts and advice would be appreciated. Thank you.
March 24th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
I don’t have any problems at all with men getting erections on the massage table. The thing that I want to accomplish here is learning more about them so that men can have an opportunity to heal the shame they feel about them and help them understand the difference between a massage and sensuality and not always think that sensual touch will bring a sexual response.
I am not clear as to what request you would make of your massage therapist? To see where an erection would go? That isn’t allowed.
Why does sensual always have to mean sexual for men is what I want to know?
Can men not enjoy the touch for what it is just nurturing touch without needing/wanting/using the parasympathetic response reason for getting an erection?
March 26th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
“I actually think the whole reason why men get them on the massage table is related to the fact that they are made to feel guilty about getting one as a kid.”
This is a ridiculous statement for which there is ZERO evidence. I have been going to the same massage therapist for 15 years. Rarely, when I am on my back and she is working on one of my legs, the sheet rubs directly against my privates in such a way that it brings on an erection. It has nothing to do with guilt, sexual thoughts, or any such thing. It goes away as soon as she moves on to another part of my body. I always hope she doesn’t notice and am supremely grateful that she has never said anything about it.
May 5th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Hello Julie.
I don’t mean to be judgmental but it does seem that you already have answers to your questions and that you want to be validated by mens responses. I can appreciate your questions and curiosity, but what I believe might be “upsetting” certain male readers is your “assumption” that men need to be healed. You know what? You are probably right, for some men…
Some men simply like to be touched. Some men can’t control it. Some men don’t want to control it. And I’m sure some men would want to and still can’t get an erection… during massage.
I have a few questions as well. Only one man has had an erection during your massages (20,000)? Did that man seem like he wanted more from you? Conversely, how many men who did not have an erection want more from you? You write of healing and social stigma, but what about fear in general, fear that an erection somehow will lead to rape? I am not a woman, and I don’t claim to know of fear of rape, and I certainly don’t want to trivialize it, but these are also components of the discussion. But please, in some way, your comments simply aggravate what you believe to be true. Heal a man’s reaction towards an erection? I find it a bit ironic.
Also a bit ironic that anyone who would be embarrassed or ashamed, would be more so by your writing.
To give you insight into my own massage experience. There are times during a massage when I get erections. Sometimes its because the sheet moves over me a certain way. Sometimes its because I like the way it feels when the masseuse is touching me. Sometimes I get one walking over to the room with the masseuse and I get a little nervous about being naked which makes me focus on it and I get an erection (that might be what you are looking for?). And sometimes it just happens. Sometimes I tuck it away so that I dont have to worry about making my masseuse uncomfortable. Sometimes I sleep. The reason I go to get a massage is relieve the tension in the muscles of my body. And I love being touched by a woman, I don’t need anything more.
My final (not really final!) comment is a little off topic, but it is in response to your last post (on 24 Mar 2008 at 9:56 pm)
What is nurturing? What is touch? I guarantee you that most men don’t even know what parasympathetic response is let alone use it as an excuse.
You shouldn’t so always and all so much… it bothers some people. =)
regarding
“Why does sensual always have to mean sexual for men is what I want to know?”
The question is not phrased properly so I can’t answer it. But if your question was with the “always” (maybe mostly), my answer would be simple… because we are not women. There are differences, lets not try to eliminate them, lets embrace them. Women attract men, lets not be children here. This is the nature of things. Any time you wear anything or do anything that makes you feel more like a women, is laced by some genetic response. And our reactions to those things are also just that simple. Hard-ons? Nothing to fix…
You will never get what you want.
Have you or a friend had scary experience with male client?
I do agree that the whole physiological card is a bit overplayed. Its actually quite comedic.
A man is naked with a thin layered sheet over him and there is a woman touching him. Please…
Sorry if I’m a bit all over the place… Everyone is right, and everyone is wrong. Including me…
May 5th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
I actually don’t have the answers that is why I am asking and no I have never had a bad incidence with a male on my massage table - no one has ever wanted more and I don’t actually have any problems with men getting them on the table. I have heard many horror stories from other women dealing with physical and sexual abuse and not necessarily massage therapists but there seem to be a fair number of women in the profession that have had bad experiences with men on and off the table. It is more about how do women protect themselves from those who do want more?
What I do get is many emails from women who do and who are very concerned about having to deal with this especially women who want to work alone in a office space or in their homes.
The thing I find most interesting is how much response this thread constantly gets especially from men and very few women bother to stop and comment and other post don’t get any response and are much more or just as important than this, and I get 50 spam posts a day not in direct relation to this thread but I find it curious that more people aren’t commenting on other posts and always on this!
Julie
May 6th, 2008 at 7:20 am
“What I do get is many emails from women who do and who are very concerned about having to deal with this especially women who want to work alone in a office space or in their homes.”
Im not trying to say the link below is the answer or works or helps or that I agree with it. I include it here merely because it seems to be “tactical” and you can decide to pass it along.
http://www.integrative-healthcare.org/mt/archives/2005/12/a_common_male_p.html
May 14th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
I’m a male, I’ve gotten hundreds of massages, and I’ve been aroused in almost every one of them. I consider arousal to be a natural part of a massage. If I ever start getting massages without being aroused, I’ll make an appointment for a physical exam because I’ll know something must be wrong with me.
All I want is a massage; I’ve never so much as asked for a happy ending. Every massage therapist who has noticed my arousal has had the attitude: “I see you are enjoying your massage.”
I’ll avoid massage therapists named Julie.
Ferg
May 14th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
You guys are really getting the wrong idea… I have nothing against men getting erections on the table. I am challenging you to explain why not all men get them and explain why you do? Instead of just saying that it is normal to get them. It isn’t the norm at all. Most men do not get them and it isn’t a problem.
Are you able to tell the difference between sensual? and sexual? I think you are missing out of so much by getting an erection on the table.
I just think that there is a very deep hidden side to this as with all things and hope that men can have a chance to find it - whatever it is…
I also think it is the type of massage that is given. I do mainly deep tissue and structural integration work and trigger point work and have only had a few guys (maybe 2 now) get an erection on my table in 20 years.
I don’t think of it as a compliment if you do get one and if a massage therapist said that “I see you are enjoying your massage” I would run the other way because they think they are the cause of it and they probably are because their thoughts are on what they are creating on their table.
Julie
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:39 am
Julie, Read some of your responses. I think it a great discussion! Obviously some men and some female MTs find this to be of concern. THAT alone justifies the conversation. As a man, I can tell you I have come close to getting an erection on the table on occasion. I am quite large and it would definitely be noticeable. HOWEVER, I don’t get embarassed whatsoever. My concern was how the female therapist would feel, not myself. I KNOW I have no sexual desires or inappropriate thoughts at the time.
What causes it? I think a number of things could. Something causes many men to get nocturnal erections, without necessarily having sexual dreams. Not ALL men get these. Sometimes the friction against my penis as I move on the table and turn over can start it. But, just as some men respond to visual cues, some respond to touch to certain areas, others don’t like to be touched in the same area as other men. Men are NOT all the same in how their bodies respond. Some tense up to touch, others relax.
I am sure women aren’t either. I talked to one women who routinely gets aroused during a massage, and she was embarassed, especially as there is SOME evidence with women too! She had no idea what causes it as she is heterosexual, and it was a woman MT. My point is that women respond differently to the same touch…..not sure why it is surprising that men do too.
To conclude though, I think it should never be assumed that there is inappropriate intent. Men who fear erections, don’t fear the erection itself, but he MT’s reactions and assumptions. For example, will a man have his massage terminated for it?? If a woman DID show signs would she also have HER massage terminated? (I bet not) But, a man IS a greater threat IF he had wrong intentions. How can he “prove” to the MT he DOESN’T. If she isn’t convinced he loses the massage and his money!
May 24th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Hi Julie,
Normal doesn’t mean it will happen every time. It is a physiological response created by the parasympathetic nervous system kicking in — why does it kick in sometimes and not others? Same way you can have something cold on your neck on a hot day and it feels good, and other times it sends shivers down your spine. Your body is not always in the same state when you start — nor is everyone’s body the same.
If you search online, and find some reputable medical sites, you’ll see doctors and psychologists talking about the same issue and suggesting what to do about it, including an eight level approach starting with calm discussion with the client and going up to referring them to someone else.
All of the sites say that is a natural physical reaction that occurs in both sexes, more noticeable in men, but not every time any more than any thing else is always the same — I have ticklish sides, but not always. And, as most of the sites suggest, there are two ways to tell if it is “inappropriate” or “normal” — switch areas or increase/decrease pressure/pace, particularly pressure, and see if it goes away. If it goes away, it was spontaneous; if it stays, it might (but only might) be something to discuss. Of course, that conversation can only take place in context — I have a couple of female friends who were talking one day about getting a new doctor, and in the middle of the exam, it was a bit cold, and as the doctor was examining her chest and breasts, she suddenly realized her nipples were hard as diamonds. (her words). It would have been totally humiliating for her if the doctor had said, “I’m sorry, there’s nothing sexual about this. If you’re aroused, we should stop.” And when she’s cold, it sometimes happens, but not always. But in that context, any conversation would be overkill perhaps.
I’ve had some training, but I’m not a professional, so my interest is mainly as a client. I know it is “natural” and nothing to be ashamed of, nor can I do much that is GUARANTEED to prevent the possible reaction (I focus on doing math in my head, others recite baseball stats), and yet, sometimes, because of the sheet rubbing, or the pressure is a bit too sensual and not therapeutic enough, or I was flirting with the waitress at the diner next door before I came in, or my nervous system is hyper sensitive that day, or maybe I’ve gone too long between sex encounters, who knows, but my body reacts. It doesn’t last long, and as soon as the person moves away from the area it (almost always) goes away. I’m not thinking anything subconsciously, I’m quite lucky in having a great sex partner at home, and have no interest or inclination in external titillation or even validation, but it sometimes happens, and I am not hoping for a happy ending.
I was looking for info on this for a specific reason — my body reacts most often when I have therapists working on my quads. And, my IT band and quads are wrecked right now, so I have an appointment tomorrow with a young but good therapist, properly trained, but there’s a chance my body might respond. I am not worried about it because I’ll be embarrassed by it (sure, I will a little), but rather because I’m more worried she’ll be uncomfortable or think I’m being disrespectful.
On two previous occasions where it’s happened with a therapist, the first time I ignored it, she increased pressure and it went away. Another one who I had for about 2 years switched offices and went from having heavy sheets to light thin ones (i.e. much more noticeable tenting) — I was comfortable enough with her to say “Ummm, so, ummm, just in case, I know you’re a professional therapist and I’ve had lots of massage sessions with professionals so I know it isn’t sexual, but if my body responds, please don’t be insulted by it nor think I’m thinking inappropriate thoughts etc.” Her reaction was being openly stunned that I would apologize to her in advance that it might happen, thrilled that I brought it up, and happy that I was comfortable enough to tell her openly that I was worried she’d think I didn’t respect her professionalism — she’s a professional therapist, I’m not a professional patient. And it did happen with her, not that time but another time, and she increased pressure and changed locations, and it went away.
And some of it depends on the therapist technique. I don’t know your training / credentials, particularly as you started 20 years ago when the profession was unregulated, but in my area, it is strictly regulated now. And if you go to a registered therapist rather than a “relaxation” person (no, I’m not talking about a prostitute, just one of the ones who hang out their shingles in spas usually), I find it a lot less common with therapists for my body to react.
Therapists know what they’re doing, non-regulated masseuses quite often don’t — they’re massaging, and it feels good, but they couldn’t tell you anything about which amount of pressure is right. I had one who was doing long strokes on my back which was great, and then when she got to my legs, I was doing “fine” until she started running her hands slowly up the inside seam of my right leg. It sure felt great, and I don’t think she was suggesting anything, she just didn’t know to avoid the inside of the thigh. Fortunately, I was wearing shorts, and I got her to move to my IT bands instead with more pressure. “Problem” solved. But I bet she’s popular with the males if she continues to use that technique.
I’ll accept that some men might want more, just as I’ve had female friends who got massages from me when I was in school who suddenly thought we were dating and couldn’t figure out why I wasn’t trying to give them happy endings. And in that situation, it was even more volatile — I didn’t have the “sorry, I am a therapist, not a date” argument to protect me, here I was a friendly male they were naked in front of, enjoying having me massage their lower backs and legs, and not being too shy about trying to entice me.
Interestingly enough, and to shoot myself a bit in the foot, I have only ever had the reaction once when a man was giving me a massage, and only slightly. While you might be tempted to say “Ah-hah!”, one possible explanation is that I used to be a bit homophobic (poor upbringing, a lifetime to correct), and I was uncomfortable having anyone see me naked, let alone a man touch me. I’m a lot more “open” now, 40 years on, but my last four main therapists in six years have been women, so hard to say. I suspect I’d still be too “nervous” to relax enough generally with a man, reaction or no. I’m still a bit uncomfortable with women too, I always make sure the lights are down pretty low, I go swimming with my shirt on (to prevent burning, riiiiight), the only person who sees me naked is my wife.
And, I’d like to say she’s the only one who sees me with an erection, but that’s not true — she’s just the only one who actually gets to see the erection itself rather than the evidence of one. But even with her, something that might work 90% of the time to give me an arousal might not work the other 10% of the time. Depends on mental state, body dynamics, time of day, how much I slept the night before, etc.
Oddly enough, and this may be completely politically incorrect, but I did have the reaction during a massage with an, umm, repulsive older woman (so, umm, sort of like a man!). I wasn’t even sure I wanted her touching me, she had the flu, kept coughing, etc., and the room didn’t look that clean (I was travelling and my back was screwed up after being scrunched into an economy seat with a bulkhead right behind me so the seat didn’t recline, the therapist was a doctor-recommended clinic next door to the hotel). I was completely repulsed, totally tense, completely stressed, and yet my body still reacted.
I don’t know that all this leads to a satisfying conclusion other than to say “clients worry about it too”, not just because of embarrasment but the risk of misinterpretation too; and it happens irregularly with no particular rhyme or reason. Oddly enough, I once had a relaxation massage from an incredibly attractive redhead who spent a lot of time on my legs when I was single, travelling, and open to anything, and yet she was a great masseuse — no reaction at all, pressure was perfect throughout.
P.
May 24th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Thanks for the insights as a client.
just for the record -massage was regulated here in WA 20 years ago when I started.
Julie
May 27th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
I’m leaving a response as a customer of massage therapy. I’d like to post a comment about office- vs. at-home MTs.
I have been receiving massage in a chiropractor’s office (from a CMT) and have found three things that that irritate the heck out of me when receiving a full body massage: 1)I enter the room at e.g. 12 noon and am given 10 minutes to undress. I only need 2 at the most. When I ask why the delay, they say that they want to give me time to relax. Huh? Isn;t that what the massage is for? Laying there on a table in an empty, silent room like a cadaver isn’t what I call relaxing. 2) Aren’t quads and hamstrings, even the abducter and adducter longus muscles of the thigh a muscle group? Ask a new cadet CMT to massage your glutes or adductors and they look at you like you are the American Gigolo. I come away feeling ashamed that I asked someone to massage a region or muscle group that may be erotic. Two inches over the knee, and the knee bone itself, just doesn’t do it. 3) If the MT gets started at 12:10, you set your clock when the hands reach 12:48. 38 minutes? I heard the guideline is 45 to 55 minimum. I thought of a 4) Can you females drop the attitude that I’m a sesit/homophobic pig because I ask if the on call MT is male or female and will ask for a female instead of a male?
Yes, massage can be physiologically arousing, but psychologically, red blooded American males prefer to be in the company of a female if an erection occurs, not a male. Sorry to offend all you feminists out there, but isn’t relaxation what massage is about?
Regarding at-home MTs–I see a few (3 total) at different times because I don’t like the chiropractic adjustments and just want a massage. All three have agreed to allow me to practice on them, that is train me in some basic techniques. All have teaching credentials. Nothing sexual happens. Recently, this last MT has been exposed to my erection during thigh and abdominal massage. Rather than make a deal or embarrass me, she ignores it. I brought it up, and she said don’t worry about it, that MT is sort of like practicing medicine–you just have to overlook certain things (because there is nothing sexual about it).
I wish other MTs would loosen up and take this medical approach to handling physiolgicanl and psychosexual issues with their clients and talk openly about it. Otherwise, we are embarrased by your embarrasment.
Tim
June 6th, 2008 at 12:40 am
I’m a male client of massage therapy — not a therapist. I’d agree with the other clients.
I’ve probably had about 15 or so massage seessions — and I don’t think I’ve ever had a massage session where I haven’t had an erection. I never want anything sexual out of the session — it just happens, and I hope the therapist will just ignore it.
Two things that happened that bothered me:
- one time I was seeing a new therapist. She was an older, grandmotherly type of person. She was very professional, and went over all the usual forms and set expectations up front — I had no problem with that. When she told me to turn over so she could work on the front part of my body, she could tell that under the drape, I had an erection. I’m pretty sure I heard a small gasp and noticed a hesitation in her response. I wondered if, for a second, she was going to stop the session. I was a bit offended by that. I had no sexual thoughts or intentions — it was just a physical response that I couldn’t control. I expected her to know that and not be bothered by it. I never went back to her again.
- another time was the only time I went to a male therapist. This was the only session (in the US) where a therapist ever told me to leave my underwear on. I felt that this was setting up the environment that he didn’t trust me. Through out the entire session I felt that he didn’t want to be examining me, and I felt a lot more embarassed when I got the inevitable (but fortunately brief) erection during the exam. I’m not going to have a male therapist again.
The best therapist I ever had was not embarassed to work on my abs or hips even if I had an erection. There was nothing sexual about what she did, and she always kept my penis draped, even though she did some really good work on my glutes and hips. She was one of the first therapists I ever went to, and the first time I had to turn over so she could work on my front, she could tell that I was embarassed — I was trying to look and see how much of a tent my erection was making in the drape. She knew exactly what was going on, and was very nice about it. She never mentioned anything about my erect state, but just said, “relax, lay back, everything is all right.” She was just great. I wish I wasn’t tied in to a pre-paid massage program, so I could go back to her again.
July 21st, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Julie,
I’m just someone (a man) who has come across your blog: I’ve never had a massage in my life.
It’s kind of funny that you think it “abnormal” for a man to get an erection when a woman is sensually rubbing all over his body, or that these men need to “heal”, or that shame is involved. The one’s that aren’t getting them (which by your account is most of them) are not getting erections because they are intentionally thinking about baseball scores or Edward J Olmos’ face.
Erections happen all the time - in the morning, watching a woman eat a banana, climbing the rope in gym class, they happen when you want them to happen, they (sometimes) happen when you don’t want them to happen, they happen when you’re indifferent. Sometimes it’s a 100% physical reaction, sometimes it 100% mental, sometimes it’s both.
So what I’m saying is that most men are skilled at suppressing erections when needed. I personally would not want to spend $100 to go lay on a table and think about my dog getting hit by a car in order to prevent a boner, but to each his own.
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:08 am
That’s the whole thing - sensual is that you feel something. It is different from sexual. It is a great opportunity for men to learn the difference.
It isn’t abnormal for men to get them on the massage table - it just isn’t normal. I have done massage for 20 years and probably see 1000 clients a year and I probably have had 3 men I can say that had an erection. How would you explain that?