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	<title>Comments on: Massage Independent Contractors</title>
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	<description>Exporations in the Theory and Practice of Massage</description>
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		<title>By: bubbatis</title>
		<link>http://thebodyworker.com/massage_blog/massage-independent-contractors/comment-page-1/#comment-36449</link>
		<dc:creator>bubbatis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Mar 2011 21:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>When I graduated from massage school 16 years ago most positions working for someone else were 
independent contractor positions.  That was the way it was for several years afterward as well.  I have not worked in massage for maybe six years, and I have been actively seeking a massage job for the last year and I see very few independent contractor job.  I have been doing almost all of my searching on the internet, so I may be seeing the whole picture.  Most of the jobs I see are pay for table hours, some pay by the hour worked not just table time.  Many jobs are offering $15 to $20 per massage.  The people who offer an hourly wage usually offer $25 to $40 an hour.  There are occasional listings for independent contractor positions.  I see more space for rent listing than   contractor jobs</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I graduated from massage school 16 years ago most positions working for someone else were<br />
independent contractor positions.  That was the way it was for several years afterward as well.  I have not worked in massage for maybe six years, and I have been actively seeking a massage job for the last year and I see very few independent contractor job.  I have been doing almost all of my searching on the internet, so I may be seeing the whole picture.  Most of the jobs I see are pay for table hours, some pay by the hour worked not just table time.  Many jobs are offering $15 to $20 per massage.  The people who offer an hourly wage usually offer $25 to $40 an hour.  There are occasional listings for independent contractor positions.  I see more space for rent listing than   contractor jobs</p>
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		<title>By: Julie Onofrio</title>
		<link>http://thebodyworker.com/massage_blog/massage-independent-contractors/comment-page-1/#comment-25047</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie Onofrio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 15:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebodyworker.com/massage_blog/?p=784#comment-25047</guid>
		<description>Here is one of the latest articles on this from Laura Allen at MassageMag blogs

http://massagemag.com/massage-blog/massage-collage/2008/03/28/the-independent-contractor/

Julie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is one of the latest articles on this from Laura Allen at MassageMag blogs</p>
<p><a href="http://massagemag.com/massage-blog/massage-collage/2008/03/28/the-independent-contractor/" rel="nofollow">http://massagemag.com/massage-blog/massage-collage/2008/03/28/the-independent-contractor/</a></p>
<p>Julie</p>
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		<title>By: Susan N Powers</title>
		<link>http://thebodyworker.com/massage_blog/massage-independent-contractors/comment-page-1/#comment-15239</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan N Powers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebodyworker.com/massage_blog/?p=784#comment-15239</guid>
		<description>The newest publication on employee or independent contractor (I give copies of this to students in my insurance billing seminars) is:  Publication 1779 Revised 8-2008. Catalog Number 16134L. You can print this brochure off the www.irs.gov. website.  The IRS phone number is: 800-829-3676 to order free tax publications.

It seems very clear to me what constitutes an independent contractor vs. employee (at least in terms of what the IRS expects - and that IS what counts when you&#039;re audited) - so I&#039;m a little confused about all the ... confusion. 

I have met with many LMTs in NYS (where I live and teach) who have gotten themselves into very &quot;muddy legal relationships&quot; - often with chiropractors and physical therapy practices --- and come to my class unclear as to which of the two entities they are so I talk about this topic before we begin learning how to bill for NF and WC patients in NYS ---- I don&#039;t want to believe that these relationships are &quot;intentionally vague&quot; - but I&#039;ve seen too many situations when LMTs who are anxious to begin their careers buy-in to whatever they are told - And when you look at the math around it all - it almost always seems to have been set up by the &quot;landlord&quot; where the LMT is renting space (which automatically makes them an independent contractor) to be one that clearly benefits the landlord. LMTs &quot;allow&quot; the chiropractor&#039;s billing to staff to bill on their behalf ... they set up agreements where the LMT is working for a % (which is ILLEGAL under NYS Guidelines) and has no set monthly rent ... and other situations where the LMT&#039;s work is being billed for him/her and the LMT never signs the bill --- though their license number is ON the bill and that makes him/her legally responsible for the accuracy of the bill and the treatment codes assigned for dates of service.  They also NEVER see how much their services are being billed for compared to what kind of hourly fee the may be paid --- 

Many students who attend my workshops have to go back to clean up the legal relationship between their &quot;landlord&quot; or &quot;employer&quot; --- particularly when it has become clear that the reason the relationship was so &quot;vague&quot; to begin with - is because the PT or Chiropractor are billing significantly MORE for a LMT&#039;s services --- then they are wiling to pay the LMT.

Bottom line - you really can&#039;t be a little bit of both ... a little bit of an independent contractor and a little bit of an employee - and I wish massage schools did a much better job teaching this material to their students BEFORE they graduate and (once licensed) begin to negotiate some of the first contracts they will ever sign. ***This is particularly important because the age of the average massage student is so young now --- and they are accepting employment (or independent contractor) for salaries that are WAY BELOW the industry standard ---- mostly because they just don&#039;t know where to get the information.

I&#039;m interested in this dialog ---</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The newest publication on employee or independent contractor (I give copies of this to students in my insurance billing seminars) is:  Publication 1779 Revised 8-2008. Catalog Number 16134L. You can print this brochure off the <a href="http://www.irs.gov" rel="nofollow">http://www.irs.gov</a>. website.  The IRS phone number is: 800-829-3676 to order free tax publications.</p>
<p>It seems very clear to me what constitutes an independent contractor vs. employee (at least in terms of what the IRS expects &#8211; and that IS what counts when you&#8217;re audited) &#8211; so I&#8217;m a little confused about all the &#8230; confusion. </p>
<p>I have met with many LMTs in NYS (where I live and teach) who have gotten themselves into very &#8220;muddy legal relationships&#8221; &#8211; often with chiropractors and physical therapy practices &#8212; and come to my class unclear as to which of the two entities they are so I talk about this topic before we begin learning how to bill for NF and WC patients in NYS &#8212;- I don&#8217;t want to believe that these relationships are &#8220;intentionally vague&#8221; &#8211; but I&#8217;ve seen too many situations when LMTs who are anxious to begin their careers buy-in to whatever they are told &#8211; And when you look at the math around it all &#8211; it almost always seems to have been set up by the &#8220;landlord&#8221; where the LMT is renting space (which automatically makes them an independent contractor) to be one that clearly benefits the landlord. LMTs &#8220;allow&#8221; the chiropractor&#8217;s billing to staff to bill on their behalf &#8230; they set up agreements where the LMT is working for a % (which is ILLEGAL under NYS Guidelines) and has no set monthly rent &#8230; and other situations where the LMT&#8217;s work is being billed for him/her and the LMT never signs the bill &#8212; though their license number is ON the bill and that makes him/her legally responsible for the accuracy of the bill and the treatment codes assigned for dates of service.  They also NEVER see how much their services are being billed for compared to what kind of hourly fee the may be paid &#8212; </p>
<p>Many students who attend my workshops have to go back to clean up the legal relationship between their &#8220;landlord&#8221; or &#8220;employer&#8221; &#8212; particularly when it has become clear that the reason the relationship was so &#8220;vague&#8221; to begin with &#8211; is because the PT or Chiropractor are billing significantly MORE for a LMT&#8217;s services &#8212; then they are wiling to pay the LMT.</p>
<p>Bottom line &#8211; you really can&#8217;t be a little bit of both &#8230; a little bit of an independent contractor and a little bit of an employee &#8211; and I wish massage schools did a much better job teaching this material to their students BEFORE they graduate and (once licensed) begin to negotiate some of the first contracts they will ever sign. ***This is particularly important because the age of the average massage student is so young now &#8212; and they are accepting employment (or independent contractor) for salaries that are WAY BELOW the industry standard &#8212;- mostly because they just don&#8217;t know where to get the information.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m interested in this dialog &#8212;</p>
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		<title>By: Julie Onofrio</title>
		<link>http://thebodyworker.com/massage_blog/massage-independent-contractors/comment-page-1/#comment-15238</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie Onofrio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 18:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebodyworker.com/massage_blog/?p=784#comment-15238</guid>
		<description>Thanks very much for sharing that!  I hope this will help others trying to figure it all out!  Julie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks very much for sharing that!  I hope this will help others trying to figure it all out!  Julie</p>
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		<title>By: Irene Diamond, RT</title>
		<link>http://thebodyworker.com/massage_blog/massage-independent-contractors/comment-page-1/#comment-15236</link>
		<dc:creator>Irene Diamond, RT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 17:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebodyworker.com/massage_blog/?p=784#comment-15236</guid>
		<description>Hi Julie,
This confusion over &quot;worker&#039;s status&quot; is very near and dear to my heart and a business owner. In 2005 our wellness center was audited, not by the IRS, but by the EDD. (Employment Development Division). Their argument was I had the therapists categorized as ICs and they said they were employees.
Over $40 k in back taxes, penalties and legal fees and two years of stress, I finally didn&#039;t want to fight anymore for what I considered to be an erroneous classification of our workers, and conceded.

Keep in mind, if the biz owner gets audited, the therapists will ALSO be interviewed and have to present their income statements, etc, so it is really important to know in advance what you are getting into.

I hear of many massage businesses that call their workers ICs but treat them as employees. That is wrong!

I wanted to be sure therapists were not treated as employees so we were extremely careful to let the therapists come and go as they wanted, do what they wanted, wear what they wanted, make their own hours, invoice us for services, etc... I even had them sign an agreement that they were ICs and agree they were responsible for their own taxes, permits, insurance, etc.

These were the 3 main points the EDD used to determine that therapists were employees:
#1. The clients paid us, not the therapist
#2.  Therapist had no &#039;risk&#039; such as financial loss (time loss of sitting without a booking doesn&#039;t count)
#3. We provided all the equipment, and tools of the trade. (therapists brought their own music and lotion.)

Because of this audit and not wanting it to happen again, but also not wanting the hassles and expenses of having employees, we have developed a completely different business structure. It won&#039;t work for big spas and other organizations that truly should have their workers as employees because of the need for control, protocols, and consistency, but our business arrangement now, is one which for us works even better than either IC or Employee, plus we are making more money and have less over-head. 

It is extremely critical that you have it set up correctly so you don&#039;t end up like me, paying thousands of dollars and spending hundreds of hours defending myself - even though I KNOW I was right!

I am happy to answer any questions biz owners or therapists have regarding this whole continuing drama of worker&#039;s status. (email: Irene@ DiamondWellness.com)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Julie,<br />
This confusion over &#8220;worker&#8217;s status&#8221; is very near and dear to my heart and a business owner. In 2005 our wellness center was audited, not by the IRS, but by the EDD. (Employment Development Division). Their argument was I had the therapists categorized as ICs and they said they were employees.<br />
Over $40 k in back taxes, penalties and legal fees and two years of stress, I finally didn&#8217;t want to fight anymore for what I considered to be an erroneous classification of our workers, and conceded.</p>
<p>Keep in mind, if the biz owner gets audited, the therapists will ALSO be interviewed and have to present their income statements, etc, so it is really important to know in advance what you are getting into.</p>
<p>I hear of many massage businesses that call their workers ICs but treat them as employees. That is wrong!</p>
<p>I wanted to be sure therapists were not treated as employees so we were extremely careful to let the therapists come and go as they wanted, do what they wanted, wear what they wanted, make their own hours, invoice us for services, etc&#8230; I even had them sign an agreement that they were ICs and agree they were responsible for their own taxes, permits, insurance, etc.</p>
<p>These were the 3 main points the EDD used to determine that therapists were employees:<br />
#1. The clients paid us, not the therapist<br />
#2.  Therapist had no &#8216;risk&#8217; such as financial loss (time loss of sitting without a booking doesn&#8217;t count)<br />
#3. We provided all the equipment, and tools of the trade. (therapists brought their own music and lotion.)</p>
<p>Because of this audit and not wanting it to happen again, but also not wanting the hassles and expenses of having employees, we have developed a completely different business structure. It won&#8217;t work for big spas and other organizations that truly should have their workers as employees because of the need for control, protocols, and consistency, but our business arrangement now, is one which for us works even better than either IC or Employee, plus we are making more money and have less over-head. </p>
<p>It is extremely critical that you have it set up correctly so you don&#8217;t end up like me, paying thousands of dollars and spending hundreds of hours defending myself &#8211; even though I KNOW I was right!</p>
<p>I am happy to answer any questions biz owners or therapists have regarding this whole continuing drama of worker&#8217;s status. (email: Irene@ DiamondWellness.com)</p>
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